Christina Montalvo

About the episode

Hey friends, welcome to episode number 32 of Entrepreneurial Outlaws. Today’s episode is a conversation with Christina Montalvo and I am so excited for you to listen in. Christina and I sat down to talk about the similarities between the fitness industry and the business coaching industry. As someone who has also worked in both of these industries, I will attest to that. Both industries use the same marketing tactics, the same lies, and the same misconceptions. You’ll hear us getting to all the similarities, the smoke and mirrors, the ways in which we have both experienced this.

Also, we talk about our own business coaching experiences and what we can each do better as coaches, as mentors, as humans, as consumers, and ways in which we can make better decisions and also ask more questions. Christina is anti dieting and pro-inclusivity, she helps women who feel misguided, misunderstood, and left out of the ever popular cool girls table of both weight lifting and business. She says that the same issues exist in both spheres. Today she is here to pull back the cotton on all of it and create spaces and facilitate conversations that spark curiosity and encourage autonomous action. So grab yourself a drink, settle in for today’s episode of Entrepreneurial Outlaws.

Topics discussed in episode #32

Christina Montalvo

Topics Discussed:

  • Why Christina believes the business coaching industry and the fitness industry are exactly the same 
  • The importance of knowing what you are and aren’t committed to in your business and what you’re actually selling
  • Remembering there can be different desired outcomes as a coach that aren’t financial and travel freedom
  • Knowing when something is a money mindset issue vs not wanting to be a part of the problem
  • How to position and price your work so that you feel comfortable as a business owner
  • What being an Entrepreneurial Outlaw means to Christina

About Christina:

Chiristina Montalvo is the owner of The Confidence Project which has two arms: an anti-diet and inclusive approach to lifting and an anti-bullshit and inclusive approach to business. Her podcast, The Confidence Project Podcast is a blend of those two things- helping women who feel misguided, misunderstood, and left out of the ever-popular “cool girls table” of both lifting and business .She believes the same issues exist in both spheres- fitness & business. It’s all the same bullshit and the same exact smoke and mirrors and she’s here to pull back the curtain on all of it and create spaces and facilitate conversations that spark curiosity vs shame, breed clarity vs confusion, and encourage autonomous action vs trying to cram people into shiny little boxes. In Christina’s words, “Fuck that. Fuck the shine, fuck the little box.”

Episode Resources:

Connect with Melanie here:

Christina Montalvo

Transcription:

Speaker 1 (00:00:01):

You're listening to Entrepreneurial Outlaws, a podcast for creatives, introverts, empaths, and spiritual folks who want to grow a sustainable and impactful business on their own terms. We here to meet you at the intersection of strategy spirituality and self-inquiry so that we can create our own versions of success and grow businesses that serve our personal goals and creativity. Just as much as it serves our audiences together, we are paving the way for a new normal and online business. One that allows you to lean into what makes you and your business unique. And I'm your host, Melanie Knights, storyteller, and outlaw mentor with a nose of other. I'm here to help you unpack the bro marketing strategies and entrepreneurial myths that lead us to overthink our business decisions because overthinking is a feminist issue, the antidote, your intuition. So get ready as each week. We have the messy, honest, and transparent conversations about entrepreneurship.

Speaker 1 (00:01:07):

The kind that's missing from the highlight reels of our social media feeds. We're uncovering the real stories behind what it takes to run a sustainable online business on your own terms, the highs, the lows and everything in between. Ready to break the rules and become an entrepreneurial outlook. Let's do this. Hey friends, welcome to episode number 30, two of entrepreneurial Outlaws. Today's episode is a conversation with Christina Montalvo and I am so excited to feel to listen to this conversation because we have a lot to say this episode is a little bit longer than usual, and there's probably going to be a part two because we could have just carried on talking. But Christina and I sat down to talk about the similarities between the fitness industry and the business coaching industry, because in how words they are literally the exact same. And as someone who has also worked in both of these industries, I will attest to that.

Speaker 1 (00:02:08):

I a hundred percent agree that the same marketing tactics, the same lies, misconceptions, they're all bred within both of these industries. So Christina and I actually met way back in 2017. You hear about this in the episode because apparently I don't remember the situation as she does, but we met back in 2017 whilst we were both working within the same fitness and business coaching mentorship. And ever since then, we have kind of stayed in each other's fears. And so I wanted to have a conversation with Christina based on some of other recent conversations she had been having on her own Instagram in relation to business coaching. I messaged her and was like, we need to have this conversation publicly. So we sat down to talk about the fitness industry and business coaching industry. And you'll hear us getting to all the similarities, the smoke and mirrors, the ways in which we have both experienced this.

Speaker 1 (00:03:01):

Personally, we don't name names, but we do talk about our own business coaching experiences. And we also talk a little bit about what we can each do better as coaches, mentors, as humans, as consumers, ways in which we can make better decisions and also ask more questions. So Christina has a business called the confidence project and it has two arms. One is an anti diets and inclusive approach to lifting. And the other is an anti and inclusive approach to business. She also hosts a podcast called the confidence project podcast, and it's a blend of these two things. She helps women who feel misguided, misunderstood, and left out of the ever popular cool girls table of both bef lifting and business. She says that the same issues exist in both spheres. It's all the same at the same exact smoke and mirrors. And she is here to pull back the cotton on all of it and create spaces and facilitate conversations that spark curiosity, it Voces shame, breed, clarity versus confusion and encourage autonomous action versus trying to cram people into shiny little boxes. Yes you'll know that I am a hundred percent in agreeance with us. So grab yourself a drink, settle in for today's episode of

Speaker 2 (00:04:21):

[Inaudible] Outlaws. Welcome to entrepreneur

Speaker 3 (00:04:30):

Scenario Outlaws, Christina. I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Hi, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Can you take just a few moments for anyone who listening, who doesn't know you, can

Speaker 1 (00:04:43):

You just explain to everybody what it is that you do?

Speaker 3 (00:04:46):

Yeah. So currently I have two separate arms of my business. I, one half of that is a non-fat loss focused strength and conditioning for women. And the other side of that is business coaching and business mentorship. But I think the kicker here is that years ago I ran an exclusive fat loss, only business. And I know we're going to get into this, but it's been, that was years ago and it's been many twists and turns since then, because I no longer sell intentional fat loss. And that was a big, a big turning point for me. And to still be in the fitness industry, not selling something like intentional fat loss has changed the game for me. And it's also showed up in the way that I sell business also. Yeah. I think this is, this is going to be a really expensive conversation because, so you listening Christina, not Christina. And I actually met,

Speaker 2 (00:05:46):

So we met, right. I feel really bad, Melanie. I th I'm pretty sure we met. I know you were in the same. We were in the same room.

Speaker 3 (00:05:58):

I don't know if we had like a full-blown conversation, but like I absolutely remember you being there and I know that you were introduced to the room and I thought it was so cool that you had flown in from overseas.

Speaker 2 (00:06:12):

Okay. See, I don't remember that at all. I don't remember being introduced. I mean, I remember us all going round into, so basically Christina and I were a business conference back in 2017.

Speaker 3 (00:06:24):

Was it 20? I thought it was 2016. No, I didn't go to the 2016 one. So it was two. Okay. 2017. You're probably right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:06:33):

Yeah. So this was like full year, well, almost full years ago. And it was in North Carolina, I'd flown all the way to go to this conference and it was re it was a really powerful and pivotal point for me in that, in, in business and in just making some decisions. Cause I was in this role, like, what am I doing with my business moment? And it was really interesting for me to be in a room full of other people who were doing similar things to me and just to see like all these other people. And I remember you being there cause I remember there was a number of people who I'd seen and I was like, Oh, that's that person. But that was a really interesting time. And it's crazy to think it was four years ago. Absolutely insane. But that's kind of led us here to this conversation. So you said you have these like two arms to your business. One is around it is in the fitness industry and one is in business coaching industry. And so I know that you and I have talked about this briefly already about the fact that they are literally the exact same,

Speaker 3 (00:07:40):

The literal exact same. Yes. Yeah. So, okay.

Speaker 2 (00:07:45):

Talk us through this. Right. I would love to hear this from your point of view. And I'm really curious to hear what you see may similarities coming up.

Speaker 3 (00:07:52):

Sure. So first I'm going to talk about the similarities from the client standpoint. So the consumer standpoint, that client journey standpoint and where those similarities kind of intersect. So when you are a client and this is just my experience, I think that's really important to note. But when you are a consumer of the, the mainstream fitness industry, you are led through a sales process, whether this is in-person or online business, doesn't matter, you're led through a sales process that essentially tells you that your entire, your entire existence and the entire meaning of your life is about to change. Right? You're going to lose fat. You're going to get this thing and everything is a means to an end, right? So, so long as you stick to the prescription, you do, you know, you buy into this program, you go to this gym, you hired this trainer.

Speaker 3 (00:08:47):

Again, you can go in the online space, you purchase this trainers or this like, you know, Instagram famous person's lifting program. And you look at all these before and after photos, right? That's a big thing in the fitness industry. Everything is incredibly aspirational and a picture's worth a thousand words. So, you know, you're seeing these photos of these, you know, these Instagram models or people that could be a model and you buy in thinking that that's going to be true for you, right? You buy into this lie. And the same thing happens in business as consumers of business mentorship programs. If you use the right words, if you use the right aesthetics, you know the right photos of someone's lifestyle, the message is if you buy into this program, if you make this payment, if you make this purchase your entire life and the entire meaning of your existence is going to change also.

Speaker 3 (00:09:44):

And so it's sold in a very similar, in a very similar way. And what's true at the outcome of both of those things, whether you change the way your body looks or doesn't, whether you generate more income in your business or don't, you're still you, it's still your life, but we're led to that purchasing point. And we're led through that journey. First of all, thinking that something's wrong with us and that we have to change something about us. Again, it's very aspirational, which I feel paves the foundation that like the way that you look, the way that you operate, the way that your business operates, the way that you're doing all these things are inherently flawed and wrong. And so here comes the savior, right? Whether that's your fat loss coach or your personal trainer, your lifting coach or whatever, or this business coach it's for me, those parallels, especially when I was a consumer of the fat loss industry were exactly the same feelings that were brought on when I was a consumer of the quote unquote mainstream business coaching industry.

Speaker 3 (00:10:46):

Now really quick, let's switch to the coaches side of everything, the program that you and I were in together, Melanie were that was a very interesting time for me because I was already not selling intentional fat loss. And I was made to believe that I wasn't ever gonna make any money in my business unless I sold intentional fat loss. So there was a lot of contention points in that journey for me then come, you know, I'd make this decision that I'm going to start officially becoming a business mentor. I was doing some business mentorship kind of off book that was never forward facing. I never talked about it on Instagram or Facebook or anything. And I decide I'm going to pursue this as that second arm to my business. Like I mentioned, and it was kind of the same thing. Like you have to sell.

Speaker 3 (00:11:37):

So in the fitness industry, right, you have to sell fat loss. The only thing people want is fat loss, okay? Whatever fine business mentorship, you have to sell the dream. You have to sell the lifestyle. You have to make these big promises of like, you're going to generate six figures. You're going to be able to do all these aspirational things. And it's shame, right? It's rooted in shame. Your body is on satisfactory. That's about loss. Part of it. Your life is on satisfactory, right? Your, your life is a joke. If you're not making six figures, your life is a joke. If you can't just travel on a whim, if you're not living on a beach, if you're not doing this thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that carrot is being dangled, right? It's being dangled for the consumer. And then when that's all you see as the consumer and you become the facilitator of it, I think it's really easy to fall into the trap of, Oh, this is why people purchase. So what I struggled with was, gosh, do I have to sit here and promise that they're going to generate all this revenue if they hire me and I'm sure we'll get into this. But like, the answer is no, like you, sir, you never have to dangle any carrot yeah. For your clients or for your audience.

Speaker 2 (00:12:54):

Yeah. I think this is so I'm listening and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have so many things, so many directions I want to go in. So to speak to your point around feeling like we have to sell the dream and the six figures. I remember the, I wasn't my point of, I was business cart Chang. This was like, I should not have been business coaching. I I've said this before on the show. I should not have been doing it. But I felt like there was something I wanted to be doing in that sphere. And I was really struggling because I was like, how do I promise this solution of, you know, everyone wants to make six figures. It was, this still happens. Now. It certainly was happening back then. How do I promise people six figures when I'm not making six figures? Like how can I tell them how to do something if I've not done it myself?

Speaker 2 (00:13:42):

And I was literally told by my coach, well, we don't want to lie, but you know, we have to tell them what they want to hear. And I was just like, that's lying. And I'm like, I don't think I can do that. Like, I don't think my values can go that. And I would did market research so much market research for this program that I was launching. And everyone was just like, I would just like to make a thousand dollars a month. Everyone was like, I would just like to know what the hell to do first. And I came back and I was like, here's my market research. This is what I found. And I was, I was told categorically, no, no, that's what they're saying, but that's not what they want. And I was like, no, but this is what they want. This is what they're telling me. Every single person has told me, they're overwhelmed. They have no time. They don't know what to do. They would just like to make a thousand dollars a month. Like that would be great just to make some money, not keep losing money. Right. And I was told, no, no, you have to be, it's not that it has to be. Everybody wants five figures a month. Everybody wants six figures.

Speaker 2 (00:14:44):

And that was the end of that really,

Speaker 3 (00:14:45):

By the way. Right. Well, that's the exact same thing that I experienced when it came to fat loss. I mean, I was, you know, in that particular coaching container back then, like, well, like I, I'm not, I'm not going to sell intentional fat loss anymore. So that can't be your answer for me anymore. Like it wasn't, it was no longer up for debate. I, I had already experienced everything that I needed to experience both as a person and as a professional, that was truly the nail in the coffin for me to be, you know, to come to the decision of it's actually, I feel unethical for me to sell intentional fat loss because there's something to be said about the informed consent of intentional fat loss, right? Like I almost feel that fitness professionals and I, at this point, unfortunately I use the term professional very loosely, but there should be an informed consent waiver that all people should have to sign.

Speaker 3 (00:15:48):

Do you know about the repercussions of intentional fat loss? Are you prepared to gain back all of your weight and then some within five years, are you prepared to have a disordered relationship with food? Are you prepared to have a disordered and obsessive relationship with your body? Are you prepared to, you know, all that, just the, the stuff that comes up when you, when anyone pursues intentional fat loss and I'll be so bold as to say, and this is honestly, Melanie, what gets me in trouble in the online space all the time, because I speak so boldly, but anyone who's pursuing intentional fat loss that isn't beak, isn't forthcoming with their obsession and with their, there's a spectrum of disorder, right? With wherever they are in that spectrum of disorder. If they're not being forthcoming about that, they're either that wildly blind to the fact plus diet, culture, normalizes, all those disordered stuff.

Speaker 3 (00:16:43):

So I understand that. I mean, there's a ton of room for room for compassion there, or they straight up just know that it's messed up. That that's what it leads to. And so at that point I had already known, I'm not going to bring my clients through this. I'm not going to, and from a business perspective, I was fully ready for my business to go under. I didn't care. I did not care. I thought, how can I sleep with myself at night? Generating whatever amount of money I'm generating, knowing that I'm doing harm. Yeah. It was never worth the money at that point. And I, the business coach I was working with at that time was honestly not a business coach. How can you call yourself a business coach if you can't give your clients what they're telling you that they want. And obviously there's a little bit, there's a little bit of wiggle room within that, but I mean, I, I was coming to that conversation about fat loss with a ton of conviction. Like it's not up for discussion. Yeah. You know? And so to have to back at the type of response that I received, like, well, you have to do that. It's like, no, I don't. We do not have to do that. We do not. And again, just from the, the fitness industry perspective, my business did not go under when I switched to not selling intentional fat loss, it was tricky. It's still very tricky. But it just goes to show you that you don't have to sell intentional that loss. I mean, you just don't.

Speaker 2 (00:18:20):

Yeah. I mean, I, when I was hearing you say about, I was at the point where I was willing to let my business go on too. I was like, that is some Outlaws ship. That is literally what this is, right. This is that I described this as my like, this moment. Like, I was like the point where I'm no, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to run my business in a way that makes me miserable. And I've heard you talk about this and I've hated my business as well. I've, I've hated my business more than once. And the, and when I look back and I've done the work of unpacking, all of that, the cool reasons for me, Hey, my business, what, because I was playing a role, I was putting on a show and I was acting, you know, it was, it was like behind the scenes, I was a complete, chaotic mess, miserable, awful to live with, hated everything I was doing, but I'd go on Instagram and be like, Hey, I'm launching this thing and you need to buy it.

Speaker 2 (00:19:20):

And it's like the energy that it doesn't match. And it's really obvious because, you know, I'm like checking out halfway through a launch and I'm exhausted and not looking after myself. And there's something to be said for taking those moments going, I'm, I'm not doing this, this isn't what, this is what I'm not available for in my business. This is what I'm committed to and not committed to. And this is how I do that with my clients. And I'm willing to risk it for that. And I think that's so important to talk about because it's really scary doing this work.

Speaker 3 (00:19:51):

Yes. And also really quick. I want to touch on that. Cause I think this is really important. So okay. When I was, and maybe this is true for you too. So when I was selling intentional fat loss and I feel like everything we're going to say here today is just a total can of worms. So like, if you want to go deeper into this, we totally can. But when I was selling intentional fat loss, I remember feeling that my body was always up for question. So the pressure that, that put on me in that role, because once you become a business owner, the name of the game is, is allowing yourself to be seen once you're selling something that is subjective, right? So like a good body or a better body, your worth is in the hands of someone else's opinion of you, your worth and your success truly is in the hands of someone else's judgment and opinion of what you look like. Because, and let me tell you, this is, I mean, this is some that like I had to go to therapy about. Honestly, someone could look at you, your body in the fat loss, like the, you know, the aesthetic pursuit, like, Oh, fitness, look at my body, you know, like women are an ornament, that whole thing, people could look at your body and go, and this actually happened to me. Well, I don't want my legs to look like your legs. And it's like, Oh my,

Speaker 2 (00:21:12):

Oh my God. Okay. Well all right.

Speaker 3 (00:21:15):

So then I felt, and what I did for years cause I've been in business for over a decade now. So for years I remember almost trying to force my body and like the physical, just the physical, mental burden that this caused was asinine. But I remember trying to make my body into some shape or size that would be like universally accepted by not even other men, other women, because that was my target market. And it was like, if my quads get too big or if I, if my stomach gets too squishy or if I gain any weight for me, I was equating that to a loss of income. Right. And my marketing became incredibly defensive because it was trying to say, okay, you may not like my body. You may not ever want to look like me, but I promise I'm really, really smart. I'm really, really educated. Like it was very desperate and it was very defensive and it was a really, really, really dark place in my life. Because again, you're selling your, your body in the way that you look is your selling tool. Isn't that gross. Anyway, the other side of that with business, it's the same. Can we curse? Can we swear? Of course you can. Okay, perfect.

Speaker 2 (00:22:36):

Well, that's some the same, because

Speaker 3 (00:22:40):

Same thing, if I start using my quote unquote lifestyle, right? Because of my business, as the thing that I'm going to lure you in with my lifestyle is now up to your opinion, you might not think that the car I drive the house, I have the clothes I wear the blood of that. You may not think that that's satisfactory or not. So then going back to kind of what you were saying, Melanie, about performing, if you're using the like luxury lifestyle or the income that you're generating as the thing that people are going to use to hire you, you are, that's all up to someone else's subjective perspective of your lifestyle. Yeah. And that is some

Speaker 2 (00:23:27):

That is some. And I'm, as I'm hearing you say that I'm like, there's so many ways in which like, I mean, I can go back to my days of walking in the gym, you know, I worked in a gym which was very masculine and very male dominated except for in classes. And so this day I still don't really, I still don't a hundred percent know why I was hired. I don't think it's because I was the best. I think it's because I was one of the people that showed up and was like, Hey, I want a job. And they were like, cool, here's a job now. I worked really hard. And I built a lot of really great relationships. And one of the things that I suddenly felt with the women within that gym who showed up in my classes was there was some kind of, I was real, I wasn't, I was considered a plus size trainer.

Speaker 2 (00:24:21):

And, but the, the, the, the difference between me being this safe space with, within a class, and then the assumptions that would get made when I was behind the desk and the reception, you know, I'd be like, yeah, let's go and get used to up in the gym. And then there'd be this kind of look of you're going to do this. Yeah. And I can probably outscore you, like, let's go. And it was, it felt like it was this constant battle of showing that I was worthy of being in that place, in that environment that I was worthy of teaching. Yeah. Once you got, and this is like, I mean, to be fair, this is probably the same as my personality. Once you get to know me, you're like, Oh, she can teach this just as well as anyone else. And it's, it was constantly this battle.

Speaker 2 (00:25:11):

And what's really interesting. You were saying about how, when you're selling, you know, in this case, the, like the fitness transformation or the strength transformation, your entire existence is based on that. Once I left that job at the gym and I started to move my business away from health and fitness, I gained weight so badly because I did not realize that a teaching those classes was manipulating my weight on a weekly basis. But because I was constantly on show, right. I was making different choices. The moment that show ended, I could relax a little. And yeah, it was in that Denver, this whole other like dose of shame and guilt around my buddies, not what it was. Why was this so hard? Like, it's, it's just this whole situation that feeds into that. So when I went into them, business coaching, you know, being told by a coach that my lack of self care or my lack of, you know, choosing to move my body or go to the gym or eat a certain way, that's impacting how much money I'm making and that's impacting how much I can sell in my business. Well, that's just with me on a whole nother level, because now I'm just convinced that I am the roof or problems like, which isn't true.

Speaker 3 (00:26:44):

Let's back up. I know this is like, I'm the one that's being interviewed, but what can we talk about this really quick? So you were told that litter, like literally that the size and shape of your body was quote unquote, like one of the reasons why your business,

Speaker 2 (00:27:02):

It wasn't going to grow. I was told that my lack of looking off to myself was the reason my business water. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't told like, if you eat that candy bar or don't go to the gym, but it was kind of every, if I mentioned it, if I came forward and said, you know, I feel really like cool in my body and my business, like everything feels really horrible. The fast kind of resolution would be precise prescribing journaling. Cause that was just the bandaid for everything like our job as the gentleness. The second band-aid was, well, you need to, like, you need to take care of yourself. You need to go to the gym. You need to, like, you need to, you know, you need to, and I don't disagree, but I also think it's none of that person's business to prescribe me changing my body size as a reason for people not wanting to work, because that wasn't, that's not the issue I'm bigger now than I was then.

Speaker 2 (00:28:06):

And I make I'm making consistent income. So it's not anything to do with that. There was so many other factors and I feel like it, it was just, I mean, we've talked about this a little bit before we started recording, but this was, this was that person's, fatphobia a hundred percent. Like it was that they came from the health and fitness industry. They became a business coach and they perpetuated that lifestyle. Like you were saying of like a certain type of car and, and being able to travel on a whim. And for me, that was really hard because I had a young child and in my head, I was like, well, I'm going to be living this lifestyle. Well, I can't live that lifestyle. And I don't really want to live that lifestyle, but that was the lifestyle being sold to me.

Speaker 3 (00:29:02):

Yep. Yep. You got it. Yup. And it's, you know, for whatever it's worth, my very, very first experience with a business coach was in 2013 and she is still a very big name in the fitness industry, huge name. And

Speaker 2 (00:29:22):

She, yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:29:24):

And I remember back then is when online business felt very like elusive to me, I didn't really understand what I didn't understand what a lead page was. I didn't know how you made it, you know, you click something and there's like the thank you. Like, I didn't know. And I was super beginner in the, in the online space. And she said to me, I was her first business client. So I was stoked. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be like a trailblazer for the rest of her stuff, whatever. First of all, the entire situation like this just goes to show you that not everybody should be a business coach. It doesn't even if you've had your own business success, it doesn't mean that you can teach it or coach it full, full stop, like that. We just have to know that as consumers of the business mentorship space, because she was, she was and still is very successful.

Speaker 3 (00:30:12):

No part of her knew how to teach any of that stuff. And the kicker for me was, and this is a whole different story that we can save for another time. But she said to me, straight up, I think you would do better if you lost some weight. Do you want me to sign you up for my fat loss program? And I was like, no. And I think what was so sobering in that moment was throughout my, you know, a couple of weeks with her. I wasn't in a bad place with my body image until she said that now I had already had my own body image struggles. It's not like that was the beginning of it. I mean, I've been struggling with my body, my body image since I was four years old, that is not an exaggeration four years old, so that wasn't new, but she pushed on a huge wound for me.

Speaker 3 (00:31:00):

And it wasn't even a conscious thought in that moment of like, Oh, no one takes me seriously. Like in this moment because of my body. Well, I guess it was more so I didn't think that she didn't take me seriously, I guess, less than like the world or whatever. I didn't think that, that she was judging me based on my body until she said that. And something else that she also said to me was you have to make sure that you are camera ready at all times. And I'm like, what do you mean? And her advice to me was to make sure that I had my hair and makeup done any time that I had a photo of myself that I was posting or a video of myself. And can I just say that, like, that is not my style. I mean, you've probably, you've seen me on Instagram and Melanie, like I will show up. However, I show up. It is not my Mo to, to give myself a, you know, like a blowout and do my makeup just for Instagram, if it's already happening that day, because it's happening that day. Great. But I'm not getting ready for, for Instagram. I'm just not. And that was like her biggest advice. It was essentially in more or less words, maybe this would go better for you if you lost weight and also make sure your hair and your makeup is done.

Speaker 2 (00:32:16):

Oh my God. Like, it's just, it's, it's just crazy to me how well, I think it's not crazy to me at all, but it bothers me that this still goes on so much because I feel like this was happening to you in 2013. That was around about the time that I had decided I think I'd already got, I was starting to get certified. I was starting to consider building my own business, but I had no idea what I was doing. And I was in the health and fitness and I I'd been on my own weight loss journey. So I was like the Jeep in the health and fitness in sport stuff at that time. And I feel like that was very popular. And it was at the time where Facebook was like big and it showed everything to everyone. And it was just the narrative.

Speaker 2 (00:33:05):

It was just the narrative. Like I remember those memes and those posts that we saw everywhere at that time, and to have your own body, to have your embody portrayed in that way, by somebody who you're investing time and energy and money with somebody who you're trusting. And so for them to suddenly turn around and be like, Oh, well, yeah, he fixed this and this and this, then, then it will be okay. And it's, it's, it's still happens. And it happens in these really micro ways as well. Like you were saying with, you know, even on Instagram, when every time you look at someone's video, we'll post and they have a blowout and full face of makeup or whatever. I mean, like some people do that because that's what they do. And that's fine. Totally. But like, if we're doing that and we're only seeing that, and that's the narrative, it's like, that's the, the, the ridiculous bother with trying to make me, we're trying to measure up to that, that level, even if that's not who we are, because that's all there is.

Speaker 3 (00:34:16):

And kind of, you know, taking that conversation a little bit deeper, some, one of the reasons why, one of the reasons why I stopped selling intentional fat loss was this was kind of the beginning part for me when I started thinking, gosh, maybe this isn't, maybe I'm not actually being helpful was I had clients at the time. And I was running my business out of my single car garage at this time. That's how my business started. They were using health promoting behaviors as a means to an end. And so for example, they would stop eating, let's say fruit and vegetables because it quote unquote wasn't working or they would stop coming to their workouts because it quote unquote, wasn't working. And it was, you know, several months of kind of paying attention to this, this pattern and this trajectory that clients would go on. They were only doing these things that were actually helpful for their health, if it yielded weight loss.

Speaker 3 (00:35:13):

So that's, that means to an end. So then I thought so that, you know, that started a whole host of changes. And obviously I was healing my own internalized fat phobia at that time. And, you know, but it was observing those behaviors and how using these things as a means to an end was ultimately screwing them up. Let's change industries. Let's go to business coaching when we're using income, right revenue, six figure years, blah, blah, blah. Just that, that that we cannot get away from people will stop doing things that are conducive or helpful for their business. If they feel like it's not helping them get that means to an end and in the fitness industry, do you know how many options there are for you outside of fat loss? Do you know how many benefits there are to, to moving your body with purpose and intention outside of fat loss?

Speaker 3 (00:36:17):

I mean, the possibilities are endless truly endless, but when we focus on fat loss, it's like, well, there's only one reason why I'm doing this, right. There's only one reason why I should do this, but the same can be argued for business. And this is where I'm at right now. I was obsessed. Well, right? Because Instagram, this is, I think everyone is this way for whatever they're after Instagram becomes an echo chamber. So there was a long time where everything I looked at on Instagram was all, you know, lean this and muscle building that and six pack, six packs, and, you know, just looking a certain way. So that was the echo chamber years ago, then around 2015, 2016, my Instagram became an echo chamber for this again, this lifestyle, right? The, the luxury to six-figures the, this, the, this, the, this, the money, money, money, money, money.

Speaker 3 (00:37:08):

Do you know how many other reasons why people can pursue entrepreneurship outside of six figures? So many right now, I'm at this point right now. And I've been saying this for for over a year now to my business coaching clients, by the way, I no longer. And I may re enter into a season of, of wanting to generate more revenue. And that being the thing, the goal that I'm after, but where I'm at right now is I want more time to myself. And so we are led to believe that, like, the only reason why we should pursue entrepreneurship is to have, you know, again, six figures, seven figures 10 K months, like it's all monetary, it's all just making money. And for me, I'm like, it. If I don't ever have to set an alarm clock ever again, I'm the richest person. I know.

Speaker 2 (00:38:02):

Yeah. And do you notice though, for those people who are kind of selling time or time freedom in online business, there's still, is this like monetary, it's still money, money adjacent, still. It's still, it's what I see. And I call this the business coaching echo chamber as well. So it's, it's funny that you said echo chamber on Instagram. It's like, it's the same thing, right? It's it's like everyone talking about the same stuff in the same way. And they want the same results. It works for a few people, but for the most of us, the result is like this self-doubt loud in a critic feeling really disloyal. There's just all these feelings that come up. But when the coaches who do talk about, or people in management, the coaches, but people who are talking in the online business space about time freedom and this luxury lifestyle, and being able to be on the beach all day, like, I don't know what well they're living in.

Speaker 2 (00:38:59):

I mean, me neither. I work probably a lot less that wasn't a lot of people because I tried to work within my son's school schedule, but it's also not perfect. And there's still this, this adjacent to making money. It's like, as if, well, you ha you can, you can work just two, four hours a day or a week or whatever. At the same time we're making seven or eight figures or whatever it might be. It seems to be this. If I, if I'm using my hands, which no one could see if there was like a graph, I feel like it's like the more money you make, the less hours you can walk. That hasn't been my experience. It's my experience is like the most stuff happens in your business show. You can outsource, but now you have like a new set of responsibilities and a new set of fears and a new set of things to deal with.

Speaker 2 (00:39:49):

And so the idea that, you know, you'll grow and you outsource now you have more time. And now this is like, it's not, it's still not linear. You might have, yes. You can eventually get to this place where you've outsourced certain tasks and yes, you're growing, and yes, that can potentially help you make more money at the same time. It might not, it might not go that way. And it may take you a hell of a lot longer. And it's like the same as you were saying about the, the goal in your business is not necessarily to make more income right now. I think this is so interesting because I think 20, 20, a few people who I, who I trust within the online business space, I saw this kind of conversation of like, I'm just not going to grow my business next year. Like, and one of my, my kind of prompts I shared at the end of last year and something I've been really focusing on is how can I make the same amount of money, but why?

Speaker 2 (00:40:46):

Plus, like, I don't need to make more money, but I would really love to take back some of my boundaries and my time and things that I just let slip in 2020 and that lifestyle. I'm not sure doing that so that I can travel on a whim. I mean, none of us can do that right now. Right. I'm not doing it to live on the beach. I'm doing it just so maybe I could pick up my guitar more than 30 minutes a week. Like, that's like, for me, that's my goal right now. And yeah, it's just so interesting that we live in this. We live in this world. We especially are in this bubble of online business where everyone wants to teach you how to be authentic, which can't be taught. And at the same time they're prescribing these like blanket on says, which aren't authentic.

Speaker 3 (00:41:38):

Yes. And you know, it not to beat a dead horse, but in again, when we're leveraging what our body looks like, there's so much going on behind the scenes that, that individual, right. Who's like showing their abs and showing their, this, and showing their, that there's so much going on behind the scenes of the mental and physical implications of maintaining that level of physique right. In the same vein when people, and this is what I'm big on. And I always say like, the I talk about is not sexy on Instagram and that's not my problem. Like I'm no longer here to have, like, to have the sexiest Instagram. And I mean that both literally and figuratively, but I'm always like how much of that stuff that you're buying or the vacations that you're going on are these like photo shoots that you're doing and all this, you know, luxury lifestyle, like hire me, join my business program, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 3 (00:42:35):

How much of that is on a credit card? Like, are you actually, is, you know what I mean? Like there's something to be said about the financial implications of these things and these things that people, and certainly I'm not saying that that people have to dump the whole truth of their financial situation on Instagram. But if they're using their quote unquote, you know, financial situation as the thing they're leveraging, then there does need to be a certain level of transparency. Right? Did you buy this you know, vacation or are you in this vacation home because your business generated that revenue and you afforded that via liquid cash? Or did you finance that on a credit card? Because I'll tell you right now, I've got enough room in my credit cards. I could definitely fake my way through fooling everyone into thinking that like, I'm just dripping with cash a hundred percent, but it'd be all on a credit card. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:43:35):

I put investments in my business on credit cards. I shouldn't have done it. I did it like so many of us have, I'm still paying some of those investments back. And one of the things I just think happens over time when we are working with people who, because it is a privilege to have a credit card and it is a privilege to be able to use those credit cards. What happens is it's like the full-out and the full-out doesn't really seem to affect them. The full-out effects, the person who's putting on the credit card. I mean, I've been on group coaching situations where somebody was told, well, you just need to put it on a credit card. I can't even remember what we were talking about. And this person was like, I don't like credit cards. I've never had a credit card. And the coach was like, well, that's a you problem. Like, you need to, you need to just figure that out. That's your money Brooks. And I was just sitting there like,

Speaker 3 (00:44:29):

Isn't it always though? Don't you love that? Like, Oh, it's your money, mindset.

Speaker 2 (00:44:33):

Yeah. Mindset. I just smell some. Like that's, that's what it is. Okay. Let, hold on. We have to talk about this. Okay.

Speaker 3 (00:44:42):

I, my assistant and I talk about this all the time and what I love about her. I mean, she's so similar to me in that she's truly like what we say on, I would say a weekly basis is what planet are these people living on? Because she, you know, so she started she works a full-time job still. And then she started like a little VA from, you know, on the side just for some extra income. And so she's been a consumer of the industry as well, because there's very similar to the business mentorship space, I guess this would fall under that umbrella is like build your VA business. Right. So she's, that's the kind of stuff that she's been consuming. And some of these programs, again, just like straight up business mentorship outside of just like a VA, like start your VA business.

Speaker 3 (00:45:31):

Her and I talk all the time. Where did these people get off? I mean, okay. Let's let's what example will I use? I have consulted and hired like a lawyer on retainer. Right. And I have yet to pay an actual lawyer more money in my 10 years of business, 10 years of business, I have yet to pay my attorney more money than some of these business coaches are charging for their programs. And I'm like, where do you get off? Thinking that again? Like where someone's going to say that it's my money block, but what in the do you think that you bring to the table that's worth 10, 12, $15,000? What world does that happen in?

Speaker 2 (00:46:18):

Yeah. Yeah. And I agree. And I think it's so interesting because as someone who is now in this position of my business of like cooling this stuff out while there's some like real huddles, I have to come up against when I'm like pricing stuff. Cause I'm like, you know, don't listen to people, but please listen to me, please listen to me, tell you not to listen to people and like, you know how do I price something which I know is valuable and I'm, I'm, you know, I'm getting over that hurdle, but it's like, you know, I've had to journal on that idea of like, I mean, because I journal for my business, like, that's my focus, but it's like, is this a money mindset issue? Or is this just me not wanting to be a part of the problem? You know, how much is, how much is this worth?

Speaker 2 (00:47:13):

You know, what kind of transformations are you actually promising? Like, what is it you're actually going to help people do? And it's, it's this, it's this individual work that this like, self-inquiry that we have to do because we need, if we're committing to not being part of the problem, not being part of the, put it on a credit card or like getting people into debt, it's like, how do you position your work in a way where it's like, this is how much is I feel really comfortable and confident with this. I know that it's the right price for my, my audience of my potential clients. You know, I've seen you talk about this in relation to unfuck your business. And I really respected it. When you said on, I think it was on Instagram stories. You talked about the fact that it was opening again in, I dunno, in the full time.

Speaker 2 (00:47:59):

And you said, if you start saving this amount per month, you'll be ready. And I was like, those are the kinds of conversations that we all need to be having. Not this whole, like the doors are closing and I won't be open. I don't know when it's going to happen. Oh my God. Like, no transparency of like, it's closing, don't worry. Your business will be okay. Yep. Yep. I like, and if it's not, it's probably not going to be because you didn't invest in those program and you'll be okay. And here's when it's going to open and here's how much you could save. Here's what the PR like, it's that transparency, you know, getting ready to beta test a program. And even when I heard myself say beta test, I was like, Oh. And I was like, okay, let's clear up what that means is live.

Speaker 2 (00:48:45):

I haven't painted all of the parts out for you. Like, that's, it, it doesn't mean all the other nonsense. And I think I saw or heard you talk about this in relation to what did, what does it mean when we're looking at these areas of our business? You know, when we're looking at these different phrases, we talked about like Lincoln bio and it was like, Oh, I'm so fed up with saying this, but what is the alternative? So frustrating when we have to, we feel that way, but it's like, we just have to know that we're doing good and that's and trying to do good and trying to do better than what has come before. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:49:32):

That's a really, I mean, that's a really good person. That is a very good perspective, you know, really quick touching back on

Speaker 3 (00:49:41):

The pricing of everything and how we arrive at pricing. I, how do you, I'm just curious, like business owner to business owner, how do you arrive at a price that feels good for you? Because here's really quick where I'm coming at this question from, I have a friend of mine who's in the, kind of the online semi business coaching space, kind of not who uses in her mind, well, so-and-so charges this much money. So you should be able to charge this much money. And for me, I'm a rebel on Gretchen Rubin's four tendency. So I'm like, Oh, that automatically makes me not want to charge that much money. You know what I mean? So what do you feel that you, how do you come up at your pricing for stuff? Is it like, Oh, so-and-so charge this or what do you kind of do?

Speaker 2 (00:50:28):

No, it's not that. So I think it's important for me to preface this by saying, when I, again, back in the day when we were coaching and around the same spheres, I remember the way that I was told how to price and Oh my God, like I was totally somebody recently saying the amount of, like how many times I'm his thing. I may be an outlet. I'm also a rule follower. So I'm a real rule follower, like in a certain way. So I'll break the rules that don't hurt anybody. But like, if somebody is telling me here's the path to success, this is what you need to do. Do all of this. You'll get there. I'm less, I'm less likely to fall for that. Now, obviously back then, I was like, cool, give me all the stuff I'm going to do it. I was the hardest working person.

Speaker 2 (00:51:14):

I was working a nine to five. I was building my business. I was like budding out. It was okay. I was doing all this stuff the way we would talk to price back then. I don't know if it was the same here. For some reason, a hundred dollars an hour was like the go-to number. Everyone was charging a hundred dollars an hour, which even now I say that I'm like, I don't know if I remember that keep talking. Everyone was towed. At least that's what I had. It was like a hundred dollars an hour. And it was, you know, because the idea at that time was I wasn't working in the gym. But the idea at the time was like, if you charge this amount in the gym and you're charging that because of the area you live in and people's peop the income wage or the income bracket in that area, obviously you can't necessarily charge them all because that's what people are earning, but online, you can charge whatever you want, because that doesn't make any difference.

Speaker 2 (00:52:08):

Like that was kind of the narrative, right? So I live in an area where, well, I don't know. I think that the income, I mean, it doesn't really make any difference now, but like, wages are not great here at the same time. It's not, you know, house prices and things like that fairly moderate. So that was really confusing to me. I had no idea what to charge the idea of having your desk, Tia, somebody to just enter this industry to charge people a hundred dollars an hour. I was like this isn't. I mean, at the time I was told it was a mindset. I was like, I don't really think I can charge a hundred dollars an hour for something that I'm just doing right now. Here's the kicker. You're not really charging people a hundred dollars an hour. That's the price you're giving yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:52:54):

And then you're going to come up with this, like, fandangled five X, the amount of whatever it was, or like price it all out and then cut it back by like a fifth. And then that was your price. And I was like, could we not just start with that price? Like, why do I have to go all the way up here? And then come back? Like, let's just, instead of making it 25,000 and then coming back, let's just make it a thousand dollars or whatever it is. So that was what I was taught to price. So for the longest time, that was the only way I knew I had it all up. It's this big inflated price, but we're not going to charge you that we're going to charge you this. It was only when I decided to stop my service-based business, that someone actually came along and this is probably one of the best investments I've ever made.

Speaker 2 (00:53:44):

It's also one of the lowest price investments I've never made from how honestly. And I probably haven't given her enough credit for that. She came, she came up, she was like, here's the thing. You're going to give yourself an hourly rate, but you're not going to grant Facebook groups and ask every other service-based business. I know what they would charge for this because your business businesses in that business and you don't live where they live. She was like, you'll get to look at how much time you have available to work, how much money you want to make in a month. And you're not going to be crazy. You're going to be like, here's my bills. Here's why I need to pay. This is like the bare minimum of what I need to make each month. But I would like a little bit extra that's okay.

Speaker 2 (00:54:29):

And I'm going to figure out my hourly rate from that. And I came back and I was like, here's my hourly rate. And I went out into the service business while last year and started working from that price. And my person is grew and grew and grew. And I don't think it's just because of that. But I think it's because I wasn't like undercharging, but I wasn't like the most expensive. I was like, this is how much I charge. And so now when I'm doing other programs, I kind of come back to that. I'm like, this is how much, this is like the hourly, right. If I'm not doing service work, or if I was doing satisfied, this is the hourly. Right. And also I'm looking at it from the point of view of like, what am I willing to go down to? Because I want to have these, these boundaries please thresholds of like, what's the lowest I would charge for this. And if I'm okay with that, then I'm okay with that. And that's my business. Right. And I don't think anyone should compare themselves to me because they're not me. Like, and they might not be comfortable with that. And also one of the other things, because I'm very much into the word paid to actually the

Speaker 3 (00:55:38):

Older I get, the more woo I get.

Speaker 2 (00:55:41):

They have to just sit with it. You know, I've had things where I've struggled to price them and pricing this beta program. I just sat down and I was like, this is the price. And the is going up and the presale is going to be this price. And I felt instantly good. And I was like, well, I'm not going to look at it again. I'll start over thinking it. I feel like that was a very little way to ask that question, but that's how I price things now.

Speaker 3 (00:56:05):

Yeah, no, I love that. I think something that, you know, I'm sure you saw this also is like, if you want to make a hundred K and if you want to work 10 hours a week, then you take a hundred K divided by 52 weeks divided by 10 hours a week. And I'm like, what planet are we on that? This is like, I don't know. I just, again, I don't want to throw shame at anyone. Who's feeling like they're like super money hungry, but I, I have, I have definitely set up my life for years where it was just make more money, make more money, make more money, make more money. And man, that's a really hard place to navigate. And to, like I said to where I'm at the point now, and I honestly, when, when I had my brick and mortar gym set up, I was so burnt out.

Speaker 3 (00:56:52):

I was so exhausted, you know, running two completely separate businesses, a brick and mortar, you know, 2000 square foot gym, plus an online business. Plus like, I don't know, having enough time to do your laundry, forget about it. It was wild. And I thought, I, you know, we here again, we're exposed to that echo chamber where I thought, Oh my God, if I'm not doubling my income or my doubling my revenue from year to year, then I'm failing and I'm wrong and I'm bad. And I just got to the point where a couple of years ago, I thought as long as I can pay my bills and feed myself, I don't give a how much money I make. And it was operating from that place that allowed me to generate more revenue because I stopped pressuring myself into these like six figures, you know, 150, 250 K all that that we're exposed to all the time. I was like, forget it. Am I paying my bills? Am I feeding myself? Yes. Cool. We're good.

Speaker 2 (00:57:49):

Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I think, you know, the phrases, there's so many phrases, especially in online business that have been thrown around normal. Well, they've been weaponized and then they've been normalized and it's like, know your numbers, but like knowing your numbers can be very, very simple, right? Like it's not avoiding your accounts short. That is one, you know, I think that's important. Not avoiding what's going in and out checking to see, you know, okay, do I still need this investment? Do I still need to be paying for this? You know, I'm always checking in with that. I'm like, why am I paying for this? What the hell is this? Do I use that? Because it's, you know, you have, as an entrepreneur, you have a lot of like small, monthly, and sometimes you just forget what you're like, you're not using it. How have I used this?

Speaker 2 (00:58:38):

I think that practicality of those things has just been completely lost because it's just as you've called it smoke and mirrors. It's, it's these narratives that have been weaponized and then normalized, it's like taking something, turning it around. So it's the, the, the business owners follow the person who's investing in this program of coaching or mentoring, turning it around and making it their fault, blaming them, this stories. I mean, you've met with what I have done and the true traumatic situations I have been through what, like had to bubble up to try and deal with my business. I'm like, I can see how maybe these things might affect my decisions. I can also see how they, a hundred percent don't affect my decision. Yeah. You know, it's, that has to be, there has to be this kind of harmony between it. Cause I don't want to use what balance between and the do bit like we need, we need both. And I was thinking about this that it's like on a scale, like sometimes you're going to be more in the womb or sometimes you're going to need to be more in the wind sometimes like during a launch, you're probably going to be doing more and you go between the two. It's not either. Or

Speaker 3 (00:59:52):

So that's so funny because the lip, literally the way that I teach business and what I say is I teach business at the intersection of strategy and soul because I agree with you. So you call it the [inaudible] and the Dubin. And I call it strategy and soul. And like, I had never been a part of something that blended the two. It was either all strategy charged this, do this, do this. And I did that. I, I operated my business from a hundred percent strategy and I was sick and burned out and resentful and exhausted. I hated my life. I hated my days. I hated most of my clients. I hated everything. I hated my very existence. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. And then I've also, I've never purchased or hired anyone that was all woo. But when I was exposing myself to some of that, more of that Wu content, it was like, just manifest it, just journal it, just light your, you know, set your crystals on that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):

Like just all this who I'm like, but I'm, I can't like, I can't just do all that. Like my answer is not on the other side of lighting. Some a smudge stick on fire and running around the house. Like that's not gonna work. So I started thinking about the ways that I was before I launched a full blown business coaching program. I thought about the ways that I started incorporating both into my business and what started actually helping me feel invigorated to do my job, to show up on Instagram, to record a podcast. And it was equal parts. And sometimes to your point, like sometimes it's a little bit more strategy. Sometimes it's a little bit more soul, but for the most part, it is a synergy between, okay, these are best practices in business, but also this is what feels truly best for me in my bones.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):

It may not look the best on Instagram. It not, it may not be the sexiest option or the most popular option, but this feels really great for me. And I found that as long as I am doing things that allow me to sleep at night, right. I'm not harming anyone. I'm not being a liar. I'm not performing. I'm honoring myself and I'm honoring my boundaries, my boundaries, as long as I can do that. And if I can find a strategy that blends with that, I'm golden. And that's what I teach too now. Yeah. Because I think that's, what's missing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):

Yeah, no, I a hundred percent agree. I think it's so interesting that you and I have navigated very similar experiences. We've even worked with the same coaches. We kind of both come to the same opinion. That is not one or the other. There is a blend of synergy, as you said. And it's just, it just blows my mind that it, you know, we're in a very fortunate positions that we're still here running businesses after all of this, it really bothers me. How many people have probably stopped. Oh yeah. When, if they had just had an idea of what was the possibility and that it wasn't having to look this way, like the amount of businesses that probably, you know, this, this, the amount of businesses that haven't succeeded, not because of anything other than I just can't do this anymore. Because I mean, I I've said this before on the Shorelight, I'm a very persistent person sometimes to a fault. And it's like my persistence to, to see what could be possible has to some degree paid off because I kept trying and trying and trying and trying. I'm also like I was at the point of giving up, like I was at the point of like I'm done. And it was at that point, that things started to shift and it wasn't some magic solution. It was just the, I think that the idea of giving up gave me the freedom to choose differently. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):

And so for me, like, I think about this often, if I were to have to close my business down, my resume would literally say like self-employed for my entire adult life. And it's almost been that fear of like, no, one's going to take me seriously if I were to go and work for. So like, I've never worked for, I worked full-time for a gym straight out of college for like right around six months. I didn't even make it one full year. I couldn't do it. Autonomy is way too important to me. And I disagreed with everything that they were doing, even though I was selling fat loss, I was like, I don't need to sell supplements. Why do I, why do I have to do that? They're like, that's because that's what we do. And I'm like, I disagree. So I didn't make it there very long, but I think being able to make my own decisions and again, be very autonomous is it's a value of mine.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):

And so it's interesting because there have definitely been moments where I thought I cannot do this anymore, but it was never, I'm going to go work for someone else. It was truly, for me, the answer was always, I'll just learn how to live on less money. And that's actually been a huge gift because again, I mean, I just had a conversation with a friend who's like, well, well, if you, I told her, I said, if I, and there was, I'm not even going to get into numbers, but I was like, if I make this much money on my next launch, I was like, I'm done launching for a year. She was like, why wouldn't you do it again to like double that income. I'm like, cause I don't care. What am I going to do with that much money? I was like, I have learned how to live on very, very, very low amounts of money. And I'm not in that position anymore. My business is in such an advantageous position. I'm in a really, really wonderful financial position right now for a number of reasons. And mostly it's because I've truly no pun intended. I've learned how to, I've learned how to unfuck my business, which is ironic. But I also learned how to unfuck myself too. I think that's part of it. And

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):

There's something to be said about not having this pressure of keeping up with the Joneses. Like I said before, like I have learned through my trials and tribulations as a business owner and during some really, really financially tough times, especially being a gym owner during the pandemic. I mean, I had to close my gym down. So that was a huge financial burden for quite some time. I'm like, I have learned it as long as my bills are paid and I have, you know, my dog can eat and I can eat and I have, you know, a bed to sleep on. I'm cool. And I know that that's not sexy on Instagram because they're like more money. Six figures make a hundred K make 150 K make half a million dollars, whatever, listen, I didn't get in business to become a millionaire. I didn't, that's not what I'm chasing. Yeah. You know,

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):

And I think that's so important to know if the goal that you're trying to work towards is actually your own because so many times my goals were not mine, the lifestyle I was trying to achieve, wasn't mine. You know, when I look at the life I have right now, or I think even looking at the life, I mean, you know, we're still experiencing the pandemic, but last year, I mean, I just, I feel like so much clarity came from what's important. What do I actually want to prioritize? What am I walking towards? And then at the end of the year, it was like, okay, I've done this in the hottest possible year. Now like restructuring again, what am I, what am I going to continue doing? And what am I absolutely not going to continue doing? And it's, it's a lot of heavy conversations that start with yourself and, you know, knowing how to, to navigate that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):

Yeah. I do. I love that conversations with yourself. That's a hundred percent. It that's a huge part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):

Yeah. I feel like we could talk for another hour.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):

I'm sure we could come back for part two.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):

We will stay tuned. Okay. So I have a question though, that I ask every guest it's very important. I want to know what does being an entrepreneurial outlook mean to you?

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):

Oh my gosh. Okay. This is going to be very eloquent. You can't, you just have to stop giving a. There's Instagram. What I always say Instagram is it's very real and it allows for connections like you and I right now, Melanie, right? Like because of the power of Instagram, we've been able to connect. Awesome. It's also very, not real there's so we obsess over so much. That's not real and it's not important. And so for me, being an entrepreneurial outlaw is honestly just giving less of a about stuff. That's not going to matter. Like I think about myself as an old woman someday. I know this sounds morbid. I think about myself on my death bed. Right. And I'm like, maybe I have, you know, a ton of grandchildren running around. Am I really going to be like, so in 2020 I posted a viral post on Instagram reels and I, you know, like, that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:22):

There's so no, just it. And so that's a huge part of being an outlaw for me. And the other side of that is once a client, like once you connect with the real human that's where that's the that you should give a about is the people, the real humans, the people that matter to people that know you and trust you, the people that are they're investing their time with you, they're investing their trust in you. They're investing their hard earned money. I mean, that's a big thing that everyone needs to know. Like all of us, you worked hard for your money. So be discerning about where it goes and who you're trusting with that with every single one of your pennies. Right. I have made horrible financial decisions before because of the smoke and mirrors of Instagram, but we give a about so much stuff that isn't real and doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 (01:10:11):

And then I think because of that, we don't have enough energy to focus on the stuff that does matter. And then even outside of business, like we are whole, as humans outside of business, you are not your Instagram. You are not the revenue that you're, that you generate. We have lives, we have partners, we have friends and family and there's a whole universe that lives inside each of us, you know? And we can forget that day to day because of the metrics and the followers and the revenue and the, this, and the, and the, that. And so like, yeah, just give, give a about stuff that matters versus the stuff that's not gonna matter when you're an old grandma, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):

I love that. And I would agree very, very well. Thanks. You've got your honorary Stetson. Thanks. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Okay. So I have loved this conversation and I so appreciate you coming on and we will definitely have to do around too, because I like we have so much more to, to come up with. Okay. So for everyone listening, where can they find Christina, Christina hangs out mostly on Instagram, Christina underscore Montalvo. And I mean, that's, well, I have a podcast. I always forget to say that my podcast is the competence project podcast, and that's really where that's the best two places, Instagram and the confidence project podcast. Yeah. And I love how, when you'll put cross, do you blend fitness and business? I just listened to your full pot series. And I was like, yes. Walking along like, yes, this is, yes, this is so good. Thank you. Go and listen to that book cost. So we will make sure that everything is linked over in the show notes, but thank you so much for coming on and deep diving into our experiences together. I really, really appreciate it. And I've enjoyed this conversation so, so much. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):

You

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):

Tell you that was going to be a great conversation. Oh my gosh. There was so much to say we could have carried on talking and we will, we will come back for part two. This conversation was so important for me to have as well, because as someone who is still considered plus size fat web, you want to, I don't really care to label myself, but someone existing in the body that I exist in. And as someone who's living her life in that body and being an entrepreneur and being on show on Instagram, it's really, really important that we have these conversations and understand that not everyone looks the same and it's like, this is something we get, but it's not something we think about. And one of the things that we touched on today's episode, and we didn't really get dig into it, maybe that's episode the next episode, but we talked a little bit about fatphobia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):

And I said to Christina, before we started recording, as I was reading some of her notes for this episode, I was like, this is the same situation I was in. And I was plus-sized and emphasized yet. When I was in the health and fitness industry, I also was running my business from my own fat phobia. I was teaching fat loss from my own fatphobia and it was only when I left this industry started to accept my body, but what it is stop trying to be a before and an after, when I allowed myself to live my life, as I am, while still looking off to myself, that was when I really started to unpack and let go of some of that fatphobia. So I think it's really important to highlight that even if someone isn't a big ability, they can still have an experienced fatphobia themselves towards other people.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):

Right? One of my narratives, and I'm going to admit this right now, one of the narratives I used to use many, many years ago, I would look, maybe it was on TV and somebody in a buddy that was bigger than mine. And I would say to myself, well, I'm not that big. I'm never going to be that big. And I think that's a narrative that many of us probably have carried around over the years. Like we were justifying ourselves based on someone else that is never okay. And I wanted to highlight that because we didn't really talk about fat fiber in today's episode, but I wanted to just share my 2 cents on that and explain that fat five-year is real. It exists. It happens within online business very, very much. So it happens within instruct photography happens on websites and selling the dream and the transformation.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):

And this is some of the things that Christina and I talked about on today's episode. So I hope that you enjoyed this conversation. As much as I enjoyed sitting down with her to record, it was so much fun. And as you hear us talk about in today's episode, one of the things that used to happen for both of us is constantly being prescribed journaling, constantly being told that it was on mindset blocks. And we also talked a little bit about the fact that now as we get older, we are both a little bit more interested in the word. I suddenly find a lot of solace and a lot of a lot of joy from walking in that place. And it's one of the reasons why I created the outlet journal is because the elbow journal isn't like other journals. It is not a place that you will just come to.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):

When I, when you feel like you need to prescribe yourself some time to sit down and write. If you, as someone who's felt really resistant to journaling, somebody who felt like, you know, writing a gratitude list, isn't actually productive. It's not going to grow your business. I'm right there with you. Like for me, that's not my journaling practice. And I believe wholeheartedly that we have to find our own purpose for these things, and it's not going to be perfect. And we have to let go of some of the expectation because so often the expectation has been pawned by someone else. So this is one of the reasons why I created the aloe journal to allow those of us who happy, resisted, who made me function from that kind of Taipei hardworking. Maybe even if we want to talk about energies, more masculine energy. And as I said in today's episode, I really see it as a scale.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):

And you're going to navigate these scales from this place of, of stretch cheats to this place of self-inquiry and spirituality. You're going to go back and forth. And sometimes you're going to spend more time in one or the other, but as long as you have both available and they look good for you, they feel good for you. They are driven by your own values. That's really important. It's when we're chasing someone else's dream, when we're chasing someone else's expectation or someone else's goal that we can get really confused, really overwhelmed. And we'd not going to be able to show up in a full alignment. So yes, I do talk about the worry, but I'm still very much focused on strategy. Trust me, I like to get done just as much as the next person, but I do it in a way that feels really kind to myself.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):

So if you are interested in some of those conversations that we've had today, if you want to find out more about the outlook journal, you can head over to my website, Melanie nights.com forward slash outlaw channel. You can read more about the journal. You can see some, see some pictures and some videos that I've recorded around how to use this general. I've been talking about it for the last few weeks, maybe months or over on Instagram, and you'll be able to buy your very own copy of the aloe general. If you buy it through Amazon, make sure you sign up in the subscription box below the sales button so that I can send you some free goodies along as well. We want to make sure that you are taken care of. So that is it for today's episode, episode 32. In next week's episode, we are going to be looking at my newest program.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):

The outlook collective, the outlook collective is a six week group program. I have been talking about this as well, over on Instagram, and we are running this for the first time. It's really about getting back to basics. There are some really foundational principles of online business that do matter. There are things that really, really set us up for success. And there's three things we're going to be talking about is marketing sales and mindset. Those three things are important, but as you probably know, they're very, very broad topics. If you have spent any time in online business, you already know that there are so many different things that can come into marketing. So many factors to consider so many ways in which we can do it. And that's really the point. The point of this program is to help you get back to basics. Look at these three areas as a whole and help you decide what it is that you need and want to do from your own business.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):

How do you create your own agency? How do you create your own decision-making within that? How do you make sure that you are running your business from your own entrepreneurial outlook commitments from your own place of value and your own own alignment? Because it's so important that we understand as individuals that the way we show up gets to be possible. So that is next week's episode. We're going to dive into a little more around the outlook, collective talking about these three areas. I'm going to be sharing with you a little bit behind the scenes of what does it mean to get back to basics and online business, and why are these three areas, what we're focusing on and why is it so important? Okay. So I will see you next week for episode 33 until next time.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):

Outlaws,

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):

Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode of entrepreneurial Outlaws. If you see yourself as an entrepreneurial outlaw and enjoyed this episode, would you do me a favor? It would mean the absolute world to me. If you could take a moment to subscribe to the show and leave a rating and review by leaving a review, you were helping me to grow out we'll community and together we can show other entrepreneurs that breaking the rules can actually be good for business. Don't forget. You can find the show notes for today's episode, along with any of the links that I mentioned on my website@melanieknights.com forward slash podcast. And if we're not already virtual busters, you can come and hang out with me on Instagram. I am the one with the country music playing the lukewarm coffee in my hand, and I'm dishing the doubt on how we can make entrepreneurship more inclusive and transparent. Plus I'll probably send you some fun gifts. So until next time Outlaws.